traction bars 101

[blownragtop]

It's pretty cut and dry if you really think about it. Look at your diagram. The bars do not create acutal "lift" but they are angled upwards and in turn try to lift the truck up. And becaus they are not attached "rigid" to the rear like you said they do not force the rearend into the ground (like I said).

Just for the record they do more then stop wheel hop! they transfer rotational force forward in whichever angle they are pointing. Those $99 bars help stop wheel hop by pulling backwards on the frame. Hey I bet those $99 bar will help you 60' better in reverse!

Here’s you a handy protractor to measure that lift. :tongue:

Long bars are a simple rehash of the old under-riders that were being used in the 50’s and early 60’s (ala the ShelbyGT-350). They became obsolete, at least for drag racing, when Grumpy introduced the slapper bar. They still make them for the nostalgia guys who like to keep their cars period correct.

Traction Master Company


I’d invite anyone to look around the staging lanes at the faster leaf spring cars. I’d wager that you’d find a lot of Caltracs, Slide-a-Links, slapper bars, ect… but not one long bar/under-rider. They seem peculiarly popular to the Lightning scene. I’d understand it if they were cheap (like the Duff bars). But since they cost as much or more than Caltracs they make absolutely no sense.

Now if someone wants to argue that long bars are better than Caltracs I’d sure like to hear that reasoning. :headscratch:

 

[giddyup]

Long bars better then ctracs.....giddyup's reason number uno....long bars are QUIET! Does that nake them better? that depends on your use.just like all the above posts.

 

[lightningDan]

+1 jamie, plus the proof is in the 60ft time slips! :frog:

 

[Jamie V]

Hey, I'll argue all day.

How fast have you gone in a gen 1 lightning on Caltracs?
How fast have you gone in a gen 1 lightning on slide-a-links?
How fast have you gone in a gen 1 lightning on on slapper bars?
How fast have you gone in a gen 1 lightning on long bars?
How fast have you gone in a gen 1 lightning period?

all of the other options you have listed are all very "short" our trucks are long and heavy. Caltracs are a traction aiding device (unlike the $99 bars) they will improve your 60' over the others. Just not as good as long bars. There are members here that had caltracs on their gen 1's and replaced them with long bars and improved their 60' times. You can't argue with facts! When you guys start comparing bone stock gen 1's the traction devices aren't going to matter either way. But start making some power and see what happens!

 

[blownragtop]

You’re right Jamie – you can’t argue with facts. Outside the small pond of Lightnings Caltracs are a proven performer. Al Jimenez has a 1,500+ horsepower, 3460 lb Camaro that runs 7.3’s @ 196 on 295 dragradials with Caltracs. (1.233 60ft) If Caltracs can hook all that up (on radials no less) surely they can benefit a truck with ½ the power (or less). And please don’t try and convince me that the laws of physics are somehow different for a truck.

At the end of the day everybody has to make their own decisions. To each his own.

 

[giddyup]

You’re right Jamie – you can’t argue with facts. Outside the small pond of Lightnings Caltracs are a proven performer. Al Jimenez has a 1,500+ horsepower, 3460 lb Camaro that runs 7.3’s @ 196 on 295 dragradials with Caltracs. (1.233 60ft) If Caltracs can hook all that up (on radials no less) surely they can benefit a truck with ½ the power (or less). And please don’t try and convince me that the laws of physics are somehow different for a truck.

At the end of the day everybody has to make their own decisions. To each his own.

while the laws of physics dont change.....aerodynamics and a 4500lb truck vs a 3400 lb camaro can be debated all day...;k

 

[needmorepower]

while the laws of physics dont change.....aerodynamics and a 4500lb truck vs a 3400 lb camaro can be debated all day...;k

Along with weight distribution and suspension geometry. :grin1:

 

[blownragtop]

Aerodynamics doesn’t affect the first 60 feet, weight is easily removable and suspension geometry is the whole point of contention.

 

[Jamie V]

At the end of the day everybody has to make their own decisions. To each his own.

Your right, only difference your giving people advice off of your opinion of what works on these trucks. I'm giving people advice from actuall experiance! Why don't you show us how fast you can go in a gen 1 on caltracs and then come back and tell us how great they are!

Every time someone come on here telling guys what works on these truck with experiance from a vehicle other then a gen 1. And it never works. come back with some actuall experiance and then give advice.

 

[jimmys93L]

i love it how people try to argue with jamie v about things that they have never tried and he has....

 

[fordfx497]

i love it how people try to argue with jamie v about things that they have never tried and he has....

ha ha lol, ya until their truck can beat jamie's in a drag race, then i will listen to them!!!! lol:gl:

 

[Diabolic]

Wow! This thread is reaching epic length! I think it all boils down to what you want to do. I personally have the Duff bars and theat did exactly what I wanted them to do. They stopped my wheelhop. My traction is still just fine as well. There are some of us oth there that actually want to drive our trucks like a normal vehicle. Want to be able to drive them on a regular basis without worrying about someone hitting us and losing 50K in the process. Not have to listen to a choppy exhaust rattling our teeth out or blowing a headgasket because we got on the truck when it was 105º outside. For those of us that dont want a racetruck or something that resembles one then the Duff bars are fine.

There are those that really want to make their trucks go fast in a straight line. Some people just add superchargers to an otherwise stock truck and enjoy 13 sec success. They could probably get away with the Duff bars at that power level. Then you have those that add heads, race headers, superchargers, nitrous, turbos, or a combination of a couple mentioned above. They start to get expensive and the owners wouldn't want to lose the investment in an accident or theft. At this level they "can" be drivers, but most are not. With all that money comes the fun part, the speed. Yes, long bars are probably required at this power level. I'm not going down that road with mine at this time, so I cannot provide hard evidence that the Duff bars begin to fail at a certain power level or not. I don't know of many that have tried the Duff bars into the 12 or 11 second range. I DO KNOW that the rep at James Duff said they have several people running them on 600 hp drag trucks without a hitch. So it's $100 or $400. I don't like to spend money that I don't have to for the job I'm trying to accomplish. For what I needed(need), the Duff bars work. I recognise that the long bars are also proven and very durable performers. They both fill a nitch, which ones do you need?

 

[Spencedaddy]

they fill a niche


and i like them, for 100 bucks, they kick some serious butt, on high power truck maybe not so much, but for right now, they rule!

on I65 they kinda bounce the truck though, which is odd....road is crappy though so thats the main issue, i dont care!

 

[JAMES HESTER]

Wow! This thread is reaching epic length! I think it all boils down to what you want to do. I personally have the Duff bars and theat did exactly what I wanted them to do. They stopped my wheelhop. My traction is still just fine as well. There are some of us oth there that actually want to drive our trucks like a normal vehicle. Want to be able to drive them on a regular basis without worrying about someone hitting us and losing 50K in the process. Not have to listen to a choppy exhaust rattling our teeth out or blowing a headgasket because we got on the truck when it was 105º outside. For those of us that dont want a racetruck or something that resembles one then the Duff bars are fine.

There are those that really want to make their trucks go fast in a straight line. Some people just add superchargers to an otherwise stock truck and enjoy 13 sec success. They could probably get away with the Duff bars at that power level. Then you have those that add heads, race headers, superchargers, nitrous, turbos, or a combination of a couple mentioned above. They start to get expensive and the owners wouldn't want to lose the investment in an accident or theft. At this level they "can" be drivers, but most are not. With all that money comes the fun part, the speed. Yes, long bars are probably required at this power level. I'm not going down that road with mine at this time, so I cannot provide hard evidence that the Duff bars begin to fail at a certain power level or not. I don't know of many that have tried the Duff bars into the 12 or 11 second range. I DO KNOW that the rep at James Duff said they have several people running them on 600 hp drag trucks without a hitch. So it's $100 or $400. I don't like to spend money that I don't have to for the job I'm trying to accomplish. For what I needed(need), the Duff bars work. I recognise that the long bars are also proven and very durable performers. They both fill a nitch, which ones do you need?

well said!while my truck is no beast I'm doing just fine with a naturally aspirated daily driver running mid 12's with the stock lightning slapper bars and a 26" tire!my 60' is a best of 1.78 but I'm still running 3.55's as well!if traction isn't an issue is there any reason to run any type of bars?if so please explain!

 

[Jamie V]

I think it all boils down to what you want to do. I personally have the Duff bars and theat did exactly what I wanted them to do. They stopped my wheelhop. My traction is still just fine as well.

I agree with this 100%. If all you want is to stop wheel hop they should work fine. If your tring to stop wheel hop and aid in traction for hard launches the long bars are the trick. Somewhere in the middle are the Caltracs (I think they are right behind the long bars but well above the $99 bars)

Now about the street driving part.... I think the long bars are great for the street. The stiffen the truck up quite a bit. The Caltracs are very noisy on the street unless you really preload them.

 

[JAMES HESTER]

Now about the street driving part.... I think the long bars are great for the street.

that's what i wanted to know!i guess weight transfer is much more noticeable on the street with the long bars than the others?

 

[Jamie V]

I don't think you will be able to get it to hook enough on the street to notice whether it transfers weight better then the others. I do know that they are better then the caltracs for street duty because of the lack of moving parts. Now as for the $99 bars. I bet what Spence is noticing "bouncing" is from the bars binding up the leaf springs.

Picture this. As the suspension compresses or relaxes the rear housing actually moves frontward or backward. This is why the rear portion of the leaf springs has shackles. As the leafs compress (flatten out) they get longer. They can't move forward because of the hangers so they push backward. Well with any "bar" type device as the rear moves up and down the bar moves on an arch. As that bar moves on an arch the end connected to the rearend moves a certain amount forward. When the bar is dead level it is as far back as it will go. Now the shorter the bar, the shorter the arch. The shorter the arch the more the end moves forward/backward for every degree it moves up and down. Now when the suspension compresses the rear moves backward because of the leaf spring and moves forward because of the bar...... get where I'm going. You get some kind of bind. But usually what happens is the bar because of how it's attached tries to rotate the housing.

So, to summerize... the longer the bar the less it effects the suspension as it raises and lowers. Longer the bar = Less "bind"

Does all that make sense?

 

[needmorepower]

my 60' is a best of 1.78 but I'm still running 3.55's as well!

Nicely done! My best with the stock slapper bars is 1.757, but shortly thereafter I blew the diff. apart. I read someone else on here post that 1.7's were the max. for the slappers and they were obviously right, so be careful, because you're right on the edge!

 

[StruckBy]

make this a sticky and/or lock it
:noentry:at:

 

[JAMES HESTER]

I don't think you will be able to get it to hook enough on the street to notice whether it transfers weight better then the others. I do know that they are better then the caltracs for street duty because of the lack of moving parts. Now as for the $99 bars. I bet what Spence is noticing "bouncing" is from the bars binding up the leaf springs.

Picture this. As the suspension compresses or relaxes the rear housing actually moves frontward or backward. This is why the rear portion of the leaf springs has shackles. As the leafs compress (flatten out) they get longer. They can't move forward because of the hangers so they push backward. Well with any "bar" type device as the rear moves up and down the bar moves on an arch. As that bar moves on an arch the end connected to the rearend moves a certain amount forward. When the bar is dead level it is as far back as it will go. Now the shorter the bar, the shorter the arch. The shorter the arch the more the end moves forward/backward for every degree it moves up and down. Now when the suspension compresses the rear moves backward because of the leaf spring and moves forward because of the bar...... get where I'm going. You get some kind of bind. But usually what happens is the bar because of how it's attached tries to rotate the housing.

So, to summerize... the longer the bar the less it effects the suspension as it raises and lowers. Longer the bar = Less "bind"

Does all that make sense?

definately makes sense!waaaay back in high school i had a ford ranger with the jc whitney bars and omg did it ride rough.it felt like the rear end was mounted rigid!did eliminate the wheelhop but it would spin like crazy on the street!