I Got Issues! Part I - Coolant Leak

Maybe a pin hole or hairline crack that hasn't been located yet. You stated the overflow coolant tank boiled over? If so, something is definitely going on.

I can't say for certain that it did considering that the top and sides of the tank weren't really all that wet, but if it wasn't that then I don't know how else all that coolant got down into the driver's side wheel well. Level in the tank now is still a little higher than it was when I found the leak, but it doesn't have as much as it should considering that I filled the radiator, filled the tank to the line, started the engine with the cap off, let the fluid recede into the radiator, then put more in. Level is a little short of the cold fill line. Not surprising since it was pretty clear that a fair amount ran down into the wheel well.

A little tidbit that I'm not sure is important, but....when I first popped the cap on the radiator after that short run to pick up the tabs and coolant, I noticed that the coolant that I could see down inside the radiator looked a bit frothy. Not loads of foam or anything, but the coolant definitely looked a little aerated. I figured with the gurgling that I had air in the system and that air makes froth, so I wasn't exactly alarmed even though that didn't seem quite right to me either.

I'm at the Ford dealer now getting an oil change. Asked them to see if they can visually determine where the leak is coming from while they have it on the lift, but I'm sure they'll end up telling me that I need a pressure test. Will probably go ahead and do it.
 
Since you're there, probably a good idea and you can then be pretty much done with your investigation and guessing.

That's what I figure. Just didn't know if a pressure test would provide essentially "foolproof evidence" where the leak is coming from or if it had the potential for making a small leak a big one. I guess I Google this kind of stuff too much.

Ironically, I contemplated getting a coolant flush last week as well before taking this trip and towing since I wasn't 100% sure when the last time it was that it was done. I think the selling dealer did it right before I bought it (I know they did trans flush), but couldn't remember for sure...but then I did what I always do and start Googling and reading the age-old debate on "flushing" versus "draining and filling" on older, high-mileage autos and said, "I'll worry about it later since the dealer probably flushed it," so OF COURSE I was going to get a coolant leak this weekend! :)
 
Service Advisor just came back.

Said it looks like there is a small leak on the driver's side from a freeze plug. Said it looks like a newly replaced freeze plug.

There are other leak(s) on the passenger side that he seemed less sure about. Sounds like they need more time to look at it and with a pressure test, so I'm coming back tomorrow for that.

He didn't sound overly alarmed like I should be freaking out or parking the truck or anything, but I'm bummed to hear about a freeze plug. I know some of those are real tough to get to and require pulling trans or engine.

If it is one of the plugs that the selling dealer installed, that is salt in the wound. I didn't expect anything on the driver's side since all the fluid underneath is on the passenger's side. I think most dealer repairs have a certain warranty, but I'm not sure that is the case for a repair that was done when it was the dealer itself who owned the vehicle.
 
I know some of those are real tough to get to and require pulling trans or engine.

Not sure what your relationship is with that dealer but a second opinion might be in order.

I have no reason to suspect B.S. from the dealer you're using but I do generally suspect B.S. from dealer service departments ...

If you're so inclined, the plugs can be replaced with a little dis-assembly but no trans or engine removal.

http://www.nloc.net/vbforum/showthread.php/215634-S-O-B!!-Freeze-Plug(s)?highlight=freeze+plug
 
Not sure what your relationship is with that dealer but a second opinion might be in order.

I have no reason to suspect B.S. from the dealer you're using but I do generally suspect B.S. from dealer service departments ...

If you're so inclined, the plugs can be replaced with a little dis-assembly but no trans or engine removal.

http://www.nloc.net/vbforum/showthread.php/215634-S-O-B!!-Freeze-Plug(s)?highlight=freeze+plug

Well, to be fair, the SA didn't say it would require engine or trans pull...I just thought that was true of this particular engine's plugs depending on exactly which one it is that needs the replacing.

Come to think of it, though, if the leaking plug is one of the ones that the selling dealer (different dealer) replaced, then it must be able to be done without pulling either. I can't see a dealer pulling an engine or trans to fix a freeze plug on a 20 year old truck.

I haven't had a chance to look at the thread you linked yet, but I'm going to go ahead and say that I'm probably not so inclined! Lol!

I'll definitely study up, though, if I can't get someone to say they fix this without some major $$$.

I figure at some point the engine is going to come out of this thing considering how long I plan to keep it, but I would like it to be more a controlled "Now I can afford to spend some money overhauling all the old seals that probably need to be replaced and get the frame treated" versus, "Oh, crap, I've got a leak that I need to stop asap!"
 
I would get a second opinion from an independent, or ask where they are getting their estimate hours from, Alldata, Ford or Tech's recommended hours.
 
Maybe a pin hole or hairline crack...

Had one of these in the radiator in my old Jeep - took me forever to find it because it wouldn't leak until it was hot, and when I was driving would put out a fine spray onto the lower part of the engine which is where I spend all my time looking until I crawled under it when it was hot and running and saw the pinhole leak in the lower corner of the radiator.

Since you're there, probably a good idea and you can then be pretty much done with your investigation and guessing.

Yup. Save you a lot of time it would.
 
I would get a second opinion from an independent, or ask where they are getting their estimate hours from, Alldata, Ford or Tech's recommended hours.

I almost always look for a second opinion for anything that the dealer says requires more than a couple hours of labor.

Most independents around here are $70-80 per hour. Dealers are usually at least $100. Two hours = $50 difference. I know that is still at least a 20% difference no matter the amount, but I tend to look at a $50 difference as being a palatable amount for throwing some service at the dealer to try to get a little bit of a relationship going with the "Ford experts" and to have a little more piece of mind in the quality of work. This is probably entirely unjustified and unfair towards independents, but sometimes I do feel there is something to the fact that the veteran techs at Ford dealerships have almost certainly worked on more 9th gen F-150s, for example, than even the most experienced independent guy.
 
Well, son-of-a-*****......dealer says it is:

1) Radiator. A "passageway" at the bottom that they said they couldn't even see until they had pressure on it and the truck warmed up. $400 new radiator and labor. "Passenger side lower corner."

2) Two freeze plugs. "Driver's side rear" and "passenger side front." The SA said it is the passenger side front one that requires the engine to be pulled to fix. Recommendation is to pull engine, replace all freeze plugs, oil pan gasket, and upper and lower intake gasket. $1600.

Well, this sucks. I figured the engine was going to have to come out of the truck at some point during my ownership, but I sure didn't plan on it four months in and the same month I decide to buy my first house and take on a mortgage.

I love the truck and it is far from a hunk of junk. I think it has actually been fairly well-maintained throughout its life. I'm pretty sure the transmission has been re-done at some point, it has been repainted, has new(er) ball joints on it and other things like that tells me that it hasn't been mistreated, but even if I can find an independent to do this a bit cheaper, this still has me in a state of "Do I spend this kind of money on it or sell it?"
 
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Anytime I get an estimate like that, I get a second opinion. Replacing the radiator is a simple in-your-driveway job. I would make absolutely sure that all those freeze plugs really are leaking before I'd yank the motor or pay someone else to do it. You can clean/degrease the block around & under the freeze plugs and put a strip of white adhesive tape under them to make sure you've got a leak, or take it to a known, trusted mechanic for a second opinion.
 
Definitely do the radiator ... yourself.

I'd give a dose of coolant tabs on the freeze plugs a try until you decide you really need to move the motor.

I'm not fully confident the motor needs to get pulled anyway.
 
Definitely do the radiator ... yourself.

I'd give a dose of coolant tabs on the freeze plugs a try until you decide you really need to move the motor.

I'm not fully confident the motor needs to get pulled anyway.

With the radiator....I think these trucks already have a stock trans cooler, but aren't there ways to hookup another auxiliary cooler? I think you're right about doing the radiator myself. I'm clearly no mechanic or even an advanced DIYer, but I feel that is a job I can tackle. Just wondering if that is a good time to look at an upgrade or add-on like an aux trans cooler while doing a job like that. I was planning on having the bumper off soon anyway so I can see if I can fix a little bumper sag on one side (I think it is a fatigued or "fender-bended" strap), so I figure I can knock a few jobs out at once on that if I do myself and have wide open access to the area.

On the freeze plugs, I'm getting a second opinion lined up. I got lucky and happened to walk up on the guy I know here at the shop next to me talking to the owner of the business (used/consignment lot and shop). I didn't know the other guy was the owner at first. When he heard me telling the guy I know about my freeze plugs, the owner acted quite confident that his shop can get the freeze plugs changed out without having to take out the engine. We'll see, I guess. Supposed to run it down there for a look today.
 
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I replaced my radiator for like $150 in about an hour in my driveway. As for the freeze plugs, I cant help you there. I had my motor out anyways and went ahead and replaced mine. But, at the time I had a garage, driveway, and the right tools to do it. Course, you could always replace the radiator yourself saving you $$$ and after a couple months address the other and just top of the coolant every now and then. I'd never sell the L. LOL
 
Lifetime warranty radiator, green coolant, distilled water, clamps and hoses for around $280. Another $10 for a thermostat and water neck gasket, or add another $6 for RTV.
 
Jury is still out somewhat on the best method for repairing the plugs. Second opinion shop said it looks like whoever replaced this freeze plug last might have jacked up the bore hole a little bit. The last person to touch the plugs was the dealer that sold it to me, but for all I know they were trying to fix a problem that was already there (clearly the plug must have been leaking, but who knows when the bore hole damage might have come about). Now I'm worried if I authorize a repair attempt on the plug while it is in the truck that it has the potential to go downhill real fast towards pulling the engine for sure.

The freeze plug issues I'm having also has me a little concerned about the prior maintenance of the cooling system and possible impact on the health and longevity of the engine.

The antifreeze has always been bright and green every since I've had it and still is when you look in the radiator, the reservoir, or catch the leaks (although the leaking fluid has recently become a bit more brown-tinged than it was at first, but not by much and I wonder if that has to do with the GM cooling tabs that I put in it). There is a bit of a brown substance high on the sides of the reservoir but nothing in the bottom or in the actual coolant, so I don't know if that that indicates for sure that my block is sludged. Besides, it could be just good ol' fashioned dirt because I've noticed my tank cap doesn't seem to want to stay snapped onto the tank.

So...let's say a guy was eventually faced with no choice but to pull his engine (if he intends to keep and drive the truck long-term) and finds that the plug holes may need to be bored oversize.

Let's also assume the worst and figure that the shop finds sludge in the block from acidic coolant. Is there a way to flush/repair that? Am I better off looking at a replacement block and having to "rebuild" the engine? FWIW, the engine shows no clear signs of issues as far as how it runs, but I know that doesn't always tell the whole story.

Also, what upgrades or maintenance items are reasonable to tackle for a daily driver while the engine is out? Aside from the obvious like oil pan gasket (and maybe a pan), intake manifold gaskets, etc. This could include light performance mods but mostly I'm talking about replace/upgrade of stock components or services that make sense to perform on the engine that are more easily done with it out of the truck.

I realize that kind of "while we're here" thinking can result in going down quite the rabbit hole, but if it is something that makes sense to do while the engine is out I'm probably going to go ahead and look at doing it....IF the engine has to eventually come out to properly fix this freeze plug problem.

As of now, I have decline further service on the truck while I gather info to weigh my options.
 
Hell with the shops and the price gouging. If you want it fixed right, do it yourself!!

That would be great and all, but not every Gen 1 owner knows how to pull an engine and re-install it.

I realize I'm probably in the minority on this forum when it comes to that kind of thing, but it is what it is. I was tired of paying $400 a month for a Mazda 6. Sold it and bought a 1st gen L cash, knowing at times I would have to pay people to perform certain services on it.....horribly expensive services, inevitably. I was just hoping to make it longer than I did before being faced with such decisions!
 
It's already messed up so what do you have to loose? Worst case you can't fix it have it towed and fixed but try first you may surprise yourself. The radiator is super easy, the freeze plugs idk? But I would try considering. Drive it up on ramps or jack it up, remove the wheel(s). Clean the engine good always helps too if its funky. Get a good look at what's going on. If someone's already tried replacing plug in vehicle then I'd guess its possible.
 
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