E-150 "big brake" rear end build thread. Need opinions and advise.

[my94lightning]

I am getting ready to have a new rear end built for my red turbo truck.
Looking for some insight on what I should have built, as this is out of my knowledge base.

My application goals, mainly street driving, lots of racing around on/off ramp corners. amateur car club drag racing a weekend or 2 a year. hopefully auto crossing.
plan to work my way towards around 800hp over time. @ 500RWHP currently@7psi.

I have a "big brake E 150" 8.8 with vented disc, dual piston calipers as my core, will be using the big brake E150 front set up also.

Current thoughts are Wavetrack, or Truetrack, as I fear about upsetting the truck in hard corning at speed with throttle changes. To me, its a Lightning and needs to still corner like or better than one at all cost.
gears,(3.73 maybe 3.55).

currently running 04 gen 2 wheels, and like em.
If I keep the gen2 wheels as daily drivers. then custom set of drag wheels, but with standard fronts, not narrow. ( I value brakes and being able to steer if needed)
I am considering making the rear end 3/4 inch a side wider. to better fit with the gen 2 wheels.

I will have a very good fab shop build and set up the whole thing. (Scribner welding in Kent, Wa)
What width? stock L or diff???
will be custom axles anyways as the van width is way to wide for the truck.

After market main caps?
C clip eliminators? how will that work with the factory disc brake setup?

I have a few Lightning rear housings, I could hack one up and use the ribbed center section with the new build, Is it actually stronger or just cooling?

Looking for guidance on what to build or what not to do for my use.
rear end will get a girdle cover or a watts link setup.

May do a min tub down the road.

If I make it stock L width do I limit big tire choices if mini tub down the road?

 

[Jamie V]

The lightning housing is the strongest 8.8 factory housing made. Those fins are for strength.

If your having a rear end built you'll want to have the ends cut off and 9" ends welded on so you can run custom 9" axles. Then you won't need c-clips or eliminators.

I'm not sure about these "E-150 big rear brakes" but you better make sure what you run fits in a 15" wheel for drag racing if that's what you want to do sometimes.

 

[my94lightning]

Not going to fit 15", checked with my Racelines and its pretty far off.

 

[Steve83]

Is it actually stronger or just cooling?

Just cooling. Strength ribs wouldn't be so thin & tall; their cross-sections would be more square, like all the other strength debossments on the casting. And they'd run from one area of high stress to another; not just end abruptly in the middle of the housing, right under the hottest oil draining back out of the pinion bearings. They'd also be all over, including on top. The fact that they're only below the oil level is the final proof that they're strictly cooling fins.

I certainly wouldn't ruin a good L axle housing - they're too rare. It wouldn't benefit the truck, anyway. Clearly, Ford decided those fins weren't beneficial enough to continue ordering them that way. They were just erring on the side of cooling the first few years.

...a watts link setup.

Not worth the effort or weight for a leaf suspension. Either use a simple central control arm beside the d'shaft (there are already bolt holes there on some axles) roughly the same length as the fronts of the leaf packs; or go to the trouble of rebuilding the frame for coils to take advantage of the Watts link.

After market main caps?

I wouldn't. The stock caps are specifically machined to fit the specific casting they came with.

C clip eliminators?

Not worth the weight.

how will that work with the factory disc brake setup?

It should have no effect.

I'm not sure about these "E-150 big rear brakes" but you better make sure what you run fits in a 15" wheel...

They require 16" minimum. That's why I switched to 16" rims - I hope to swap in an '04-up E150 8.8" with factory disks the next time I grenade my diff. But I wasn't aware of a "big" version - I though there was just 1 size. I gather from his post that the later ones got 2-piston calipers & vented rotors, which he seems to be saying are even larger.

.

 

[my94lightning]

Big brake, was as in bigger than lightning's had.

I was thinking 9 inch style ends when I said "eliminators", I assume the 9 inch axle ends have a flange for the drum backing plate? I assume that pattern would be very different than the disc van ends? That was the question of would it work.

Yes, I know the caps would have to be machined, since the tubes would be out, I imagine it could be done at that time if there was a benefit.

I don't have a problem cutting up a housing, as it would be going back in a lightning, and would kinda miss it if used the van center section.
I tend to agree it was for cooling also, but could add a touch of rigidity, Lightning's had more power and were more likely to be run at high speeds than standard 1/2 ton trucks, and all had the 4.10 that is why I believe other trucks did not get em, IMO.

Basically I have a budget to do what ever I want, and trying to get a plan for what is best for the intended use.

I think the trade for factory "full size" rear discs not explorer stuff, with matching fronts is a priority, I love driving and stopping quick, when I can get away with it, the brake dust on the wheels after 1 day of playing allways reminds me. LOL

I am bummed it will kill a lot of tire choices not staying 15' friendly. going to look into what options, if any other than the 305 /45/18 Nitto I already know about.
One reason I have not turned up the boost or go racing, is cause the current rear end is stock w a traclock, and I don't want to blow it up, before I get a new one.

 

[Jamie V]

The fins on the rear are for strength for sure. They are there to support the pinion. Steve and others can disagree all they want but the are there to give extra pinion support (not saying they they aren't there to dissipate heat also) I have watched guys with non lightning 8.8 rears break gears and then switch to a lightning 8.8 and not brake any more.

The lightning rears also have thicker axle tubes then most other 8.8 rears (I don't know what every other 8.8 rear has but our tubes are just over a 1/4" thick).

 

[Briansshop]

The fins on the rear are for strength for sure. They are there to support the pinion. Steve and others can disagree all they want but the are there to give extra pinion support (not saying they they aren't there to dissipate heat also) I have watched guys with non lightning 8.8 rears break gears and then switch to a lightning 8.8 and not brake any more.

The lightning rears also have thicker axle tubes then most other 8.8 rears (I don't know what every other 8.8 rear has but our tubes are just over a 1/4" thick).

Wow Jamie! You cast doubt about info from the self proclaimed "Bronco Guru"?

What's the world coming to? ;k

 

[lightn95]

Wow Jamie! You cast doubt about info from the self proclaimed "Bronco Guru"?

What's the world coming to? ;k

Why use Google, when there's Steve....

 

[Steve83]

...I assume the 9 inch axle ends have a flange for the drum backing plate?

All axles do.

I assume that pattern would be very different than the disc van ends?

You don't have to assume - you can measure & compare:

.

...Lightning's had more power...

Sure, but not substantially more (and often LESS) than later 4.6L trucks which used the un-finned 8.8" axle.

...run at high speeds than standard 1/2 ton trucks...

That's what generates the heat, which is the main purpose of the fins. Obviously, they do add some strength, but not a significant amount.

...all had the 4.10....

That makes the pinion gear smaller than the typical 3.55, 3.08, or 2.73 (the strongest); which makes it easier to bend. The housing strength doesn't affect the pinion gear bending, though.

...(I don't know what every other 8.8 rear has but our tubes are just over a 1/4" thick).

I didn't cut into the one I cracked to find out the wall thickness, but I think they're ~1/4". Maybe the next one...

...self proclaimed "Bronco Guru"?

No, I didn't give myself that title.

Why use Google, when there's Steve....

Well, Steve is certainly wrong sometimes.




...but not NEARLY as often as what Google digs up.

 

[my94lightning]

Anyone else have comments or ideas, I would love to hear em. good, bad etc, I would rather know now than after its built.

Well, I knew there would less drag tire choices, but wow was expecting more than that. :headscratch:
So still thinking this is the road for me since its 95% street 5% track. Not planning on a cage, so will stay in the low 11 range, just above 11.5 if get yelled at. lol.

Best of the rest, looking at MT ET STREET R or NT05r size 305/45/18
What power or 60 ft should these handle?
Also will they feel like a jelly roll on a corner cause they are a drag tire?
running nt05 street summer performance now and they feel really solid.

How do I convert to a non C clip setup, but retain all the disc stuff. do I have to have custom ends made and welded? if I do, do I need a non C clip diff also? or can I still use the C clips but just not needed?

 

[lightning_2000]

Gen 2 guys have ran bottom 10s on 18 inch mickeys

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[Jamie V]

You ain't running a low 10 with those tires in a gen 1 unless your running a turbo setup. Our trucks make all their ET in the first 1/8 mile and those tires won't hook good enough to get where you need to be in the 1/8th to run a low 10.

 

[Briansshop]

Anyone else have comments or ideas, I would love to hear em. good, bad etc, I would rather know now than after its built.

Well, I knew there would less drag tire choices, but wow was expecting more than that. :headscratch:
So still thinking this is the road for me since its 95% street 5% track. Not planning on a cage, so will stay in the low 11 range, just above 11.5 if get yelled at. lol.

Best of the rest, looking at MT ET STREET R or NT05r size 305/45/18
What power or 60 ft should these handle?
Also will they feel like a jelly roll on a corner cause they are a drag tire?
running nt05 street summer performance now and they feel really solid.

How do I convert to a non C clip setup, but retain all the disc stuff. do I have to have custom ends made and welded? if I do, do I need a non C clip diff also? or can I still use the C clips but just not needed?

DRs handle great, on dry pavement. To go non c clip you need 9" housing ends and new 9" style axles.

 

[my94lightning]

You ain't running a low 10 with those tires in a gen 1 unless your running a turbo setup. Our trucks make all their ET in the first 1/8 mile and those tires won't hook good enough to get where you need to be in the 1/8th to run a low 10.

I have a turbo, and low 10's is not my goal anyways.

figuring low 11 is plenty, if I get greedy down the road, maybe a 10.99 once just so I can say its been in the 10's lol. its been 11.9 on just the 2 pump trick & 7psi boost, so lots more in it with boost and fuel.

This is a full option street truck, and hacking up the inside for a cage is not something I am willing to do at this time.

 

[oilwell1415]

For what you are wanting to do I would leave the brakes alone to keep the 15" wheels and more tire choices. You aren't going to get the benefit of the bigger brakes unless you road race. The benefit of them is the ability to shed heat more quickly and that's not going to be an issue for you. Yes, they have the potential for more braking power. But unless you have tires that can take advantage of it and suspension that can handle it without wheel hopping you aren't going to get your money's worth out of it.

 

[lightning_2000]

10.63 a guy went. On race wheels he runs 10.24s.

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[lightning_2000]

http://www.lightningrodder.com/forum/showthread.php?t=365818

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[my94lightning]

http://www.lightningrodder.com/forum/showthread.php?t=365818

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Thats funny, if our local club did more than one thing a year, I could have talked to him by now.
Lucky I think Marty (certified drunk) will be at the car show this weekend, I will get his opinions on em.
To think, long ago, briefly, my truck was faster than his, LOL, he's out of my reach now. I have no plans for 10s.

 

[my94lightning]

For what you are wanting to do I would leave the brakes alone to keep the 15" wheels and more tire choices. You aren't going to get the benefit of the bigger brakes unless you road race. The benefit of them is the ability to shed heat more quickly and that's not going to be an issue for you. Yes, they have the potential for more braking power. But unless you have tires that can take advantage of it and suspension that can handle it without wheel hopping you aren't going to get your money's worth out of it.

Honestly, I kinda agree, I don't think I need better brakes, I just want em. I think my 2010 expedition stops tiny bit faster from 70 than the L and that bugs me.
If I ever get the turbo dialed and tune perfected, I would love to go beat around autocross tracks, the stock brakes would do it, but feel they would be unhappy and baking after each round. Since drag/is just for "fun" I think the MT's will work,
If I end up hating it, I can swap rear ends with the SuperCab L and go back to 15's. I doubt I will ever race or need more tire than the my 305/45/18 on the SuperCab.

 

[Jamie V]

What front brakes do you have now? If they are stock I'd consider getting Jeff's TCE brakes from him when he pulls them off.

If I was doing a rear from scratch I'd put 9" ends on it with a 33 spline trutrac. But I'd go 1-1/4" wider on each side then have stock gen 1 wheels widened to 11" with some M&H tires. I had to use 1-1/4" spacers to have these clear the stock wheel tubs.